Any suggestions for FACTS?

[Barney]

sayashinigami said:

Make friday 'zero day'; meaning cosplayers can enter on friday evening!! (in America they often hold a cosplay swimming party on day zero; but I guess that pretty impossible to do at the ICC...) I don't know, let cosplayers game & DDR on friday, I swear, you get very funny pictures like that!!

That would be impossible, for then, the stands at FACTS are still being built. Admitting the audience on Friday already, would mean build-up would have to start on Thursday. Which as a premier consequence means people like myself will have to ask for yet another day off at work, which isn't always possible. For foreign dealers, it might also be very difficult to arrive at FACTS on Thursday already.
+ It has to fit the ICC schedule as well.

[boomvavavoom]

2 days is just fine!!

[sayashinigami]

broskopf said:

sayashinigami said:

Make friday 'zero day'; meaning cosplayers can enter on friday evening!! (in America they often hold a cosplay swimming party on day zero; but I guess that pretty impossible to do at the ICC...) I don't know, let cosplayers game & DDR on friday, I swear, you get very funny pictures like that!!

That would be impossible, for then, the stands at FACTS are still being built. Admitting the audience on Friday already, would mean build-up would have to start on Thursday. Which as a premier consequence means people like myself will have to ask for yet another day off at work, which isn't always possible. For foreign dealers, it might also be very difficult to arrive at FACTS on Thursday already.
+ It has to fit the ICC schedule as well.

What I mean is, let the people who built up on friday throw a party afterwards ^^ and I'm pretty sure there are cosplayers out there who wouldn't mind giving you guys a hand, so they can party afterwards ^^

[Barney]

Believe me: after you have spent an entire day building up, your mind isn't set on partying. Secondly: it is only natural that not everybody can simply be allowed to walk in and out of the ICC during build-up. No visitors will ever be allowed into the building before the Early-birds and those come in first thing Saturday morning.

[MartokII]

for some cases the elevator is really needed, like for wheelchairs...

[Dark Trooper]

broskopf said:

Believe me: after you have spent an entire day building up, your mind isn't set on partying. Secondly: it is only natural that not everybody can simply be allowed to walk in and out of the ICC during build-up. No visitors will ever be allowed into the building before the Early-birds and those come in first thing Saturday morning.

He is right about this. It is not only the build up at the ICC itself but also the transport from our storage places that starts early that friday and for some of us already on thursday evening.

I just found out that I have to stay in the ICC until 18h00 so i will be busy all day and I will certainly won't feel like a party afterwards.

DT

[Stoney3K]

As far as I can tell FACTS doesn't have 'full weekend' tickets, right? The Early Bird tickets are only for the Saturday, and don't feature cosplayer's discount. I'd prefer buying one ticket for the entire weekend instead of two separate tickets each day.

Is FACTS already doing hall costumes in addition to the official cosplay? I haven't got any trouble putting on my costume but the level of costuming is so much higher than other conventions... so I'm wondering if my costume is worth the effort competing. (Compare: On Worldcons, for example, 'Hall Costumes' are featured when some people do want to dress up but don't want to enter in the official costume contest, but still want to get photo shoots and such.)

[Barney]

You do not have to enter the cosplay contest in order to cosplay at FACTS.

And no. FACTS does not have full weekend tickets.

[Stoney3K]

broskopf said:

You do not have to enter the cosplay contest in order to cosplay at FACTS.

I was talking about, like discussed in the Cosplay topic, to at least allow time for the "unofficial" (i.e. Hall) cosplayers to show off their costume as well, without interruption and the opportunity to be photographed. A decent backdrop for the photographs does a lot: Even a solid color with no extra lighting makes a big difference from the "convention floor with stands everywhere" backdrop. It draws the attention to the cosplayer at hand and makes the photo look a lot more professional.

And no. FACTS does not have full weekend tickets.

Yet! Remember that this is a suggestion topic? ;-)

Edit: Regarding the 'zero day' discussion above, most people (especially when coming from abroad) will arrive on Friday because it is impossible to get on time on Saturday, due to long travel times. I think most people would like some kind of "pre-con" activity, like DDR or karaoke, or something different, even if it means just everybody meeting up at a bar before FACTS. Having the time to get to know each other is just as much a part of a convention for me as is the contact with the guests and the dealer stands.

[grim]

Last year there was a very long queue, luckily I was early and for me the queue wasn’t that long.

This year I ‘ll go early again, I’ll be there around 9.00 o’clock or earlier

But last year there were only two box offices, so maybe this year a few more box offices would be fine

[grievous444]

And 2 entrees should make it also easier.

[idromy]

yes but would that not cost more for the organization, more entries will be better for us but.

they need to think to about the safety ( to manny people at once comming in can be trouble) of us, and the dealers ( you never know what get's in).

and it would cost them more personel, the more money goes to that the less there is for other fun things.

[LittleWolvie]

boomboom said:

why?

or isn't there in belgium a smking ban in public places like in holland?

As far as I know, there "IS" a smoking ban in public places in Belgium! So, I don't see what's the problem. No smoking allowed inside. You want to smoke, you go outside.

[LittleWolvie]

FACTS gets bigger every year, which is a good thing, but the opening times are still the same as 15 years ago. That really doesn't make sense to me. IMHO, from 10:00 till 17:00 isn't very serious for what's becoming a rather big convention. Starting at 9:00 would already be a small improvement, but what I would really like to see is a later closing time, at least on Saturday. 19:00 would already be much more acceptable. As far as I'm concerned, it could even go on beyond that. Last year I simply noticed I had trouble getting everything done. And yes, I admit I'm a big buyer and do the tour several times. But that's the point, no? I also like to compare prices on more expensive items. I'm mainly a comic collector. People who buy comics, probably know that it takes quite some time to move through one comic box. Dealers usually have 10-50 or even more and I assume they don't bring all those boxes so people would simply skip them 'cause they don't have enough time. And I'm not even mentioning the guests. It's not like you can just jump in and get your sketch/autograph. You usually have to wait in line for a long time. And I don't mind all this. That's part of the fun. But I hate the fact I have to rush or skip things, simply 'cause you have to be out by 5. Heck, I don't even eat anymore at noon and last year I barely got everything done and was able to visit 1 guest. This year, FACTS will be even bigger. But what's the point if you don't have time for everything. So please, extend the opening hours!

And yes, I realize some dealers and probably more likely, their employees, are not too fond of the idea and would like to go home early. But come on, this is a once-every-year thing and it's not like there's that many other conventions out there during the rest of the year, at least not around here. So, IMHO it deserves some extra, once a year, effort. If you're not willing to do that, I personally don't really understand what you're doing at FACTS anyway (sorry, isn't meant in a bad way).

Now, I hear you coming about the 2 days things. I agree, 2 days is great. But when are you guys finally going to start selling tickets for 2 days, e.g. 12 euro for 2 days instead of 2 times 9 euro? I think this would encourage people to come both days. I would probably do my shopping on the first day and take my time to visit the guests on the second day. But right now, I'm not doing this as it would cost me another 18 bucks for me an my wife (not counting gas etc...).

So, in short, my 2 suggestions would be:

1) Extend the opening times.

2) Start selling 2-day tickets.

[e-Mino]

wolvie said:

FACTS gets bigger every year, which is a good thing, but the opening times are still the same as 15 years ago. That really doesn't make sense to me. IMHO, from 10:00 till 17:00 isn't very serious for what's becoming a rather big convention. Starting at 9:00 would already be a small improvement, but what I would really like to see is a later closing time, at least on Saturday. 19:00 would already be much more acceptable. As far as I'm concerned, it could even go on beyond that. Last year I simply noticed I had trouble getting everything done. And yes, I admit I'm a big buyer and do the tour several times. But that's the point, no? I also like to compare prices on more expensive items. I'm mainly a comic collector. People who buy comics, probably know that it takes quite some time to move through one comic box. Dealers usually have 10-50 or even more and I assume they don't bring all those boxes so people would simply skip them 'cause they don't have enough time. And I'm not even mentioning the guests. It's not like you can just jump in and get your sketch/autograph. You usually have to wait in line for a long time. And I don't mind all this. That's part of the fun. But I hate the fact I have to rush or skip things, simply 'cause you have to be out by 5. Heck, I don't even eat anymore at noon and last year I barely got everything done and was able to visit 1 guest. This year, FACTS will be even bigger. But what's the point if you don't have time for everything. So please, extend the opening hours!

And yes, I realize some dealers and probably more likely, their employees, are not too fond of the idea and would like to go home early. But come on, this is a once-every-year thing and it's not like there's that many other conventions out there during the rest of the year, at least not around here. So, IMHO it deserves some extra, once a year, effort. If you're not willing to do that, I personally don't really understand what you're doing at FACTS anyway (sorry, isn't meant in a bad way).

Now, I hear you coming about the 2 days things. I agree, 2 days is great. But when are you guys finally going to start selling tickets for 2 days, e.g. 12 euro for 2 days instead of 2 times 9 euro? I think this would encourage people to come both days. I would probably do my shopping on the first day and take my time to visit the guests on the second day. But right now, I'm not doing this as it would cost me another 18 bucks for me an my wife (not counting gas etc...).

So, in short, my 2 suggestions would be:

1) Extend the opening times.

2) Start selling 2-day tickets.

Very nice suggestions and well argumented. Thanks.

I'm taking up the possible extension of the opening times (on Saturday) with my colleagues right now (till 6 PM). We'll keep you posted.

2-day ticket is too short notice for this year's edition, but we'll consider it for future editions.

[Toyzilla]

mino said:

wolvie said:

FACTS gets bigger every year, which is a good thing, but the opening times are still the same as 15 years ago. That really doesn't make sense to me. IMHO, from 10:00 till 17:00 isn't very serious for what's becoming a rather big convention. Starting at 9:00 would already be a small improvement, but what I would really like to see is a later closing time, at least on Saturday. 19:00 would already be much more acceptable. As far as I'm concerned, it could even go on beyond that. Last year I simply noticed I had trouble getting everything done. And yes, I admit I'm a big buyer and do the tour several times. But that's the point, no? I also like to compare prices on more expensive items. I'm mainly a comic collector. People who buy comics, probably know that it takes quite some time to move through one comic box. Dealers usually have 10-50 or even more and I assume they don't bring all those boxes so people would simply skip them 'cause they don't have enough time. And I'm not even mentioning the guests. It's not like you can just jump in and get your sketch/autograph. You usually have to wait in line for a long time. And I don't mind all this. That's part of the fun. But I hate the fact I have to rush or skip things, simply 'cause you have to be out by 5. Heck, I don't even eat anymore at noon and last year I barely got everything done and was able to visit 1 guest. This year, FACTS will be even bigger. But what's the point if you don't have time for everything. So please, extend the opening hours!

And yes, I realize some dealers and probably more likely, their employees, are not too fond of the idea and would like to go home early. But come on, this is a once-every-year thing and it's not like there's that many other conventions out there during the rest of the year, at least not around here. So, IMHO it deserves some extra, once a year, effort. If you're not willing to do that, I personally don't really understand what you're doing at FACTS anyway (sorry, isn't meant in a bad way).

Now, I hear you coming about the 2 days things. I agree, 2 days is great. But when are you guys finally going to start selling tickets for 2 days, e.g. 12 euro for 2 days instead of 2 times 9 euro? I think this would encourage people to come both days. I would probably do my shopping on the first day and take my time to visit the guests on the second day. But right now, I'm not doing this as it would cost me another 18 bucks for me an my wife (not counting gas etc...).

So, in short, my 2 suggestions would be:

1) Extend the opening times.

2) Start selling 2-day tickets.

Very nice suggestions and well argumented. Thanks.

I'm taking up the possible extension of the opening times (on Saturday) with my colleagues right now (till 6 PM). We'll keep you posted.

2-day ticket is too short notice for this year's edition, but we'll consider it for future editions.

Hm. As a dealer, this is getting a bit much, friends. Remember, FACTS is just one weekend of the year (we do cons all over Europe), and when you work all week, then have to prepare all your stuff for the weekend, days like these are real b@llbreakers, pardon my language. Some dealers have to drive hours and hours to get there, and not all of us can afford booking hotel rooms. I know of many dealers that drive home saturday evening. And that's after having been on your feet for ten hours or more!
I know we sell stuff at FACTS voluntarily, but please remember most of us have kids, other jobs, and much more to attend to.
I wouldn't want to stay until 19.00 hours. And with all due respect, a lot of these "late stragglers" aren't buying anymore, just looking.
So I'm not in favour of marathon sessions, but I'm sure others will disagree...

[sayashinigami]

You know, other cons stay open at 8pm, but close their dealer rooms at 5... this way dealers have the time they need and visitors can still hang around at the gamers/video room or fanvillage ^^
Maybe that's a solution? :3

[LittleWolvie]

@e-Mino: Thanks :-) Like I've said many times in the past, you guys have been doing a great job for many, many years now. Some people who're newer to FACTS, might not always realize this, but when you've been there from the beginning, you really realize how much this convention has grown and evolved over the years. So, if I'm to give suggestions, I certainly don't want it to sound as if I'm breaking down on you guys and I try to be as constructive as possible. As a little payback for all your efforts, I always make some free publicity for you guys (on different forums such as e.g. gijoe.nl) and every year I try to convince some friends or coworkers to give it a try. And I'm proud to say that also this year I managed to convince 2 people to pay us a visit. This might not seem like much, but it's not easy convincing people who're not into comics, manga, Star Wars etc... to give these things a try.

Toyzilla: I totally realize that and also respect that.

sayashinigami: I think this would be a perfect solution! This is exactly what we're talking about. Toyzilla is probably right when he says you don't sell that much anymore just before closing time. So, I think it would be fine if dealers started breaking down around 17:00, so they can leave around 19:00 or something like that. But it would be cool if we fans could still hang around a bit, to talk a bit longer to some guests, play some games, talk to other fans, have some general fun, etc... Of course, this would still demand an extra effort of the FACTS people and the guests willing to stay a bit longer.

[Barney]

As event coordinator of the largest costuming club present on FACTS, I can relate a LOT to what Toyzilla said. FACTS for us starts on Thurdsday evening, when everything is made ready to be transported. Friday, all is loaded up a truck, driven to the ICC, unloaded and built up. Then there's two days of convention and Sunday at 17.00 breakdown starts and everything needs to be loaded, driven back to the storage place and unloaded again.
Those are long days. Last year, I got home at 0.30 on Monday. This year will be even worse, as the fan clubs need to drag all their stuff to the first floor and when your set pieces are mostly wooden panels of 3 to 4 meters long, that's a lot of time-consuming dragging.

And that's just FACTS. When you say there aren't many conventions around here... you couldn't be more wrong. We've been asked to set up stand at several conventions in Europe, from the UK, to France, Germany and Sweden, with next year Norway and Italy being added to the list. Celebration Europe for example involved twenty of our members, who left on Wednesday and came back on Monday, with no more than 3 to 4 hours of sleep per night.

Therefore, the idea of closing down the dealers room earlier, but leave everything else accessible to 8 pm also isn't a good idea. If we could only start breaking down our Big Props at 8 pm, that'd be way too late. Also: the ICC has its own opening and closing hours which we need to follow.

For us, it's a hobby and all of our members either have to go to work on Monday, or to school.

I do see a compromise here: you could close the dealer room at 17.00 and leave the activities running later on Saturday only, because then no one but the dealers has to break down anyway.

[sayashinigami]

broskopf said:

I do see a compromise here: you could close the dealer room at 17.00 and leave the activities running later on Saturday only, because then no one but the dealers has to break down anyway.

That's exactly what I ment :333

[LittleWolvie]

@serge: While I sympathize with your situation, I think you have to reread what I actually said. As sayashinigami (geez, couldn't you pick an easier nickname ) pointed out, we were mainly talking about Saturday. I realize all too well you have to break down at a certain time and that on Sunday you can not keep things running too late. But I don't believe that was ever part of our suggestions either. With all respect to your hobby, but I was rather talking comic (and related stuff) conventions. If you can name me more than 20 actual annual comic conventions of a somewhat impressive size in the surrounding countries (and no, I'm not interested in Sweden), I'll be impressed. Earlier this year I was in LA and my friend took me to a huge convention, bigger than FACTS. This convention is held "twice" (yes, you read that right) a week. In that case, it makes a lot more sense to me that people respect closing times rather strictly. But when you're talking about the "only" convention of this genre (I know there are some others, but they are not the same size, don't bring together so many genres and are anything but comic conventions) in the Benelux, I still don't see why it wouldn't be possible to do something extra. Most dealers I visit at FACTS, you won't see at many other conventions.

[Toyzilla]

broskopf said:

As event coordinator of the largest costuming club present on FACTS, I can relate a LOT to what Toyzilla said. FACTS for us starts on Thurdsday evening, when everything is made ready to be transported. Friday, all is loaded up a truck, driven to the ICC, unloaded and built up. Then there's two days of convention and Sunday at 17.00 breakdown starts and everything needs to be loaded, driven back to the storage place and unloaded again.
Those are long days. Last year, I got home at 0.30 on Monday. This year will be even worse, as the fan clubs need to drag all their stuff to the first floor and when your set pieces are mostly wooden panels of 3 to 4 meters long, that's a lot of time-consuming dragging.

And that's just FACTS. When you say there aren't many conventions around here... you couldn't be more wrong. We've been asked to set up stand at several conventions in Europe, from the UK, to France, Germany and Sweden, with next year Norway and Italy being added to the list. Celebration Europe for example involved twenty of our members, who left on Wednesday and came back on Monday, with no more than 3 to 4 hours of sleep per night.

Therefore, the idea of closing down the dealers room earlier, but leave everything else accessible to 8 pm also isn't a good idea. If we could only start breaking down our Big Props at 8 pm, that'd be way too late. Also: the ICC has its own opening and closing hours which we need to follow.

For us, it's a hobby and all of our members either have to go to work on Monday, or to school.

I do see a compromise here: you could close the dealer room at 17.00 and leave the activities running later on Saturday only, because then no one but the dealers has to break down anyway.

Indeed, what Serge says demonstrates some of the hardships of organizing events. And to be honest, in reality it's much harder.
Just ask E-Mino. I have a pretty good insight into FACTS, as I organized it together with E-Mino up until 2003 (when I went off to do new stuff). You wouldn't believe how much work gets into this. Setting up a con takes a couple of years off your life every time. So I totally empathize: I've seen how hard people like him have to work behind the screens, and I've done it myself.
Now, as a dealer, we have to close shop on friday at 19.00, get all our stuff ready and packed and have it all set up before 09.00 saturday morning. You don't get much sleep, believe me. So at the end of saturday, you're wasted. Back up on sunday, and at the end of the day get everything back to the store and set up again for customers. Wow!
As for closing down the dealers' room at 17.00 and letting activities running later: not a good idea. Why? You may not like hearing this (don't take it personally), but stuff gets stolen on FACTS. Some visitors enjoy a little "free shopping" from time to time. I know, most of you are honest citizens, but it happens, just as it does in shops. So no seller is going to leave his stuff unattended while visitors are still roaming the building. Not a good idea, sorry.
Now don't get me wrong: I understand your passion. As a visitor, the con is indeed never long enough, that's true. You WANT to see it all! There's so much to do. But have a little compassion for the "workers".
If we all drop dead from heart-attacks this year, then who wil entertain you at FACTS next year? ;D

[sayashinigami]

wolvie said:

As sayashinigami (geez, couldn't you pick an easier nickname ) pointed out

Just call me Saya, everybody does that x333

[luminaraunduli]

toyzilla said:

As for closing down the dealers' room at 17.00 and letting activities running later: not a good idea. Why? You may not like hearing this (don't take it personally), but stuff gets stolen on FACTS. Some visitors enjoy a little "free shopping" from time to time. I know, most of you are honest citizens, but it happens, just as it does in shops. So no seller is going to leave his stuff unattended while visitors are still roaming the building. Not a good idea, sorry.

Well than, why not give the dealers personal badges with a picture of that person, the name of the person and the company he/she is representing? That is easy and cheap to make, all you need is a printer, a sealer and some creativity - and every badge has to be unique.
So, it might be a good idea to put numbers on these badges and make a checklist where the above information is written on. After 17.00, you can put a (security) guard or volunteer at the door with the checklist (for names and numbers) so no-one but the dealers themself can enter the dealer room! I think no dealer is stupid enough to go stealing, and by the way, I wouldn't expect that either from someone who's running a business himself.

[Barney]

On FACTS, the dealer rooms can't be sealed off permanently anyway. There's elevators, escalators, stairs going down directly to the halls. One security guard won't cut it and posting more guards ups the total costs a lot.